But I'm more interested in the logic behind the supposition, given that the continuous press coverage of the things Robinson says makes him, for the moment, uniquely influential. Let us examine the evidence:
There are more than a few, who faced with this (deliberately incomplete) information, will say "Oh my god, like, HELLO!" and those won't all be gay people. One of the understated conflicts about modern discourse is the amount of disbelief in the possibility of chastity. It informs our arguments on abortion, sex education, AIDS prevention, and yes, gay marriage. To many on the left, the concept of virginity and chastity are things that, like "the troops," they will claim to respect but do nothing to aid. They will not submit to the preaching of chastity, to the preaching of disciplining the sex drive. That's "unnatural." The degree to which the supremacy, the complete irresistibility of the sex drive has been taken as an article of faith among the left, and never questioned, is fascinating. And many righties are so busy tuning in to South Park to demonstrate hipness that they can't be bothered to notice anymore.
Therefore, anyone who speaks to loudly on the subject is a warped freak who hates sex. Anyone who attempts to practice chastity is either a psychological eunuch or, somehow a hypocrite (this last has been the chief damage done by the child-abuse scandal in the Church). And anyone who practices chastity and then preaches to others about chastity is, in the view of many, little short of a genocidal fanatic if he does so in AIDS-ravaged Africa.
And therefore, a holy man who is the promised Godhead in the minds of billions of people worldwide cannot possibly have been acting according to the doctrine that his followers pronounced for millenia after him. Nope, he's simply queer.
Now, I write none of this as an exemplar of chastity, not in the purest sense of the term. My own opinions have never stopped me from doing things that would offend my mother if she knew of them. But I blame all this on my imperfect understanding of the need for chastity (which is not, strictly speaking, the same as virginity), not on the impossibility of chastity. I am reminded of Ghandi's line on Christianity: "It's marvelous, I wish somebody would try it!" Which works for chastity as well as for blasphemy.
12 comments:
Nicely put. I kind of went thermonuclear tonight, floating around the other side of that coin.
I wouldn't call that "thermonuclear". You had a reasonable question. I responded at length at your site.
"And therefore, a holy man who is the promised Godhead in the minds of billions of people worldwide cannot possibly have been acting according to the doctrine that his followers pronounced for millenia after him. Nope, he's simply queer."
Wow, take Occam's razor to that one!
Occam's razor runs toward statistical likelihood, all things being equal. Miracles don't much cotton to statistical likelihood.
Or were you working on a different level?
No, miracles don't obey the laws of statistics -- if they did, they wouldn't be miracles, would they? But then again, that's the very reason lots of people don't believe in miracles.
So, is JC's chastity the miracle, or just his existence? From an entirely secular standpoint, I'm just curious. I get endless giggles out of approaching religion from a scientific point of view.
JC himself. He slept alone, at least in one sense, to demonstrate spiritual oneness with the many of humanity who have to -- the widowed, the walked-out-on, the socially inept. In another sense, he was calling attention to what we ought to do with our bodies, using them as God intended. Also, he had, for lack of a better term, other things to do.
My main point was, I get pretty bored with people who insist on reductio ad coitum, who talk about humanity as though we're nothing more than walking penii or vagina. The joke is beginning to wear thin.
"...he was calling attention to what we ought to do with our bodies, using them as God intended."
If God intended people to be chaste, he had a strange sense of humor when designing anatomy and hormones.
I don't know who you're referring to by the reductio ad coitum chorus, but in America it certianly seems there's a much stronger voice for your viewpoint than its opposite. After all, several hundred violent deaths can occur in a PG-13 movie, but slip in one "fuck" or a boobie and you're doomed. Dunno about you, but I'd rather see people fucking than killing, and same goes for what I'd rather have my kids see.
What you describe is, I think, more of a backlash to centuries of puritannical thinking in this country (though, I really don't think that's gone yet), much like the way a kid fixates on swear words upon discovering them. Neither utter prudishness nor manic sexual obsession is really healthy; hopefully the phase will pass and there'll be a more balanced and informed attitude about sex prevailing in this country. Not that I see it happening in a long time.
You won't catch me defending the excessive violence in our popular entertainment. It could stand to be restrained, but who's going to do it without being labled "puritanical," or "paranoid"?
What I refer to is the way that people insist on rolling their eyes every time someone puts in a good word for chastity, and scoffs that it's impossible.
Take the AIDS crisis in Africa. Everyone likes to give the Pope a hard time because he didn't countenance condoms, and no one wants to say "Well, gee, if there's a deadly STD out there, maybe we should be a little more careful about where we stick our dicks, or maybe we should stop the degree to which women are treated as chattel, and unable to refuse sexual advances." Nope, it's the Popes' fault. Bad, naughty, wicked Pope!
Well, I do think you're fighting a losing battle to try to overcome one of the basic forces of nature, i.e., the urge for sexual reproduction. Condoms may seem like a band-aid measure if you're intent on making sure the whole world settles down with one mate for eternity. But I'm not *that* bent on making everyone observe Western codes of behavior.
Yes, that's what I want to do: stop the urge to procreate. I'm totally against procreation, that's why I'm against con....
waitaminute....
That's pretty much what I was talking about there. "What? Tell people they shouldn't have sex?! FASCIST!"
As to "western codes," if you're down with cliterectomies for girls, rock on with your bad self...
And if you're not, let's throw all the horseshit about "western standards" and "non-western standards" out and talk about "good standards" and "bad standards."
I know...fascist, right?
oooOOOH! Because there are WORSE cultural practices out there, somehow my suggestion that you (and the pope) are idealizing a form of monogamy that's nearly exclusive to your cultural viewpoint is rendered meaningless, and we must proceed directly to a discussion of absolutes.
Now, everybody listen carefully. Is it good for teenagers to have wildly promiscuous, anonymous, meaningless sex with HIV-riddled bisexuals who want to burn the flag? Or is it good for everyone to love Jesus and wait for marriage and have happy smiling babies with rosy cheeks who love their neighbors? Those are your only two options!
Anyway, rejecting that avenue of discussion (if you're even still reading this -- I took so long to answer). I suggest, gently, that the Pope may have other reasons for wanting people to abstain from sex, reasons that have nothing to do with stopping the spread of AIDS, or promoting the rights of women, or the like. It has to do with what he believes is the will of the Christian God, which is meaningless to most Africans and indeed, the majority of the world.
I'm sure the clitoris-clippers believe the voices in their heads too.
So first you reduce everything to a structuralist definition of "cultures", then get mad when I point out the limits of such thinking. Then tell me that the Pope has more than one motive for preaching his doctrines, and that the secondary motive might be tied up with the religion of which he is the head.
Exactly what is all this intended to convince me of?
Yes, the clitoris-choppers heed their beliefs as well. Which is why we need to judge, from their results, whether the beliefs are beneficial or not. We should be able to grow up out of our tiers-mondisme so that we can do so without guilt.
I know it's uncomfortable to accept, but moral structures have consequences for societies at large. Why is it so difficult to grasp that the Pope preaches what he preaches because he believes that the people he preaches to will be served by accepting it, and harmed by rejecting it? If he believes that the universes transcendent intelligence says something, wouldn't it follow that he would think what that intelligence says is true in the physical as well as the spiritual?
BTW, if what the pope says is meaningless to Africans, explain why a) Africans are joining the Church in droves or b) (if you disbelieve a)) why the Pope should be condemned for saying something that will change the behavior of no one, and thus, do no appreciable harm.
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